Issue IX, Volume III : May 2012
| Campbell McGrath - Poetry & Interview |
|
--------- Campbell McGrath interview, with Kaite Hillenbrand & Ken Robidoux
“Baltimore” says that fellow creatures’ “kinship touches a peculiar nerve, a spot not far from where art resides,” then ends on the image of seventeen-year cicadas heading back underground, awaiting a song to awake them. In light of your poem “The Custodian,” which grapples with “the long-prophesied death of the book, quotidian relic of an archaic technology,” as well as with the word “imprinted” (root: print) at the end of “Baltimore,” it seems that both poems are, partly, concerned with the trend toward electronic, rather than printed, literature, and possibly a trend away from reading in general. What are your feelings and thoughts about the trend toward electronic media—including electronic means of reading poetry and other literature? What do you think the (metaphoric) song will be that will awaken those sleeping cicadas?
I hadn’t been thinking about electric media vs. print in “Baltimore,” but I think you’re right that it’s suggested in the final image. I guess I was musing about the power of song, and image, and the hope that they might somehow sustain us amid “the darkness.” What darkness is he talking about, might be a pertinent question. Cultural darkness is one answer, but I was thinking both culturally and existentially. Somehow the cicadas know to emerge from underground, and they know how to sing. It’s hard-wired into them, and I guess part of that “kinship” might be that we, too, have our courtship displays, our brief life in the sunshine, and our innate desire to sing. Not just poetry, all of art is that song.
Both “Baltimore” and “The Custodian” deal with the idea of salvation and sustenance. This idea, this longing, seems uniquely human. Part of this longing seems to be for a connection with other people—as you write in “The Custodian,” “we could be bees in a hive and still not know each other.” And in “Baltimore” you write the image of cicadas awaiting a song to lead them from darkness, sucking nutrients from tree roots in the meantime—all of which seems like a metaphor for the sustenance of art in the quest for salvation, and communion. Shannon, in a way, addresses the same issue: a man struggling to stay alive when he’s cut off from all human contact (though, of course, you could argue that a bit more ammo would also help him stay alive). We have three questions relating to this: Is the idea of some kind of salvation, or sustenance—the nutrition sucked from tree roots—what draws you to write and read, listen to music, etc? I’ve never consciously sought salvation, but I have sought sustenance. Art helps me survive—though of course many other things do too: love, family, baseball, Sponge Bob, etc. Art provides nutrition, yes. “Saved” is too freighted with spiritual and religious connotations for me. Maybe what we need is to be enlightened, and art can help with that, too.
In response to a question on Smartish Pace, you wrote that “Poetry is in some sense the national art form of Ireland; America's national art form is the Hollywood blockbuster.” How do you understand the difference between the sustenance that people gain from each of these art forms? Do you worry that Americans don’t interact with art enough, for the welfare of individuals and society? There are lots of reasons why Ireland holds poetry in a different esteem—social, historical and cultural reasons—and one can debate how that came to be. Art is socially determined. People like different kinds of music in Beijing and Vienna. America’s attitude toward art is one of benign neglect, you might say, but there may be some paradoxical advantages in that, as the abundance of practicing artists here attests. America is a nuts and bolts kind of place, and there’s a tendency to view art as a luxury item, which is too bad, as people miss out on the enrichment it offers. An unemployed auto worker might find a different kind “sustenance” in the poems of Phillip Levine, for instance, from the kind he can buy with food stamps.
Your poetry is very popular. We're thrilled that it is, and we wonder why you think it’s so popular. Do you think it comes back to the idea of communion: that people are drawn to you and to your work because they find there a longing that they also feel? Or do you think there is a different primary reason people are drawn to your work? Some people are attracted to my work because of its satire of our society. An amazing number of people can relate to the notion that Chuck E. Cheese is an existentially terrifying place. There is a real sense of communion in that—I am not alone! But other people like my poems for the opposite reason-- that I speak about and praise the real world I see around me. Whether praising or reviling it, though, I do think it’s the direct treatment of contemporary American society that attracts many of my readers. And it’s still quite a tiny readership, I assure you. Poetry occupies a very marginal sliver of our cultural terrain, and I don’t think that will change any time soon.
When you wrote Shannon’s story, how did you negotiate the difference between your voice and his—in other words, how do you preserve your voice as an artist, but still let Shannon speak? Is this an ethical choice you had to make? Is it artistic, a craft-based decision? Did you pick Shannon because of similarities between yourself and him, and/or because his story, or voice, speaks to us today in a particularly relevant way? Of course there is a kind of literary/ethical issue when it comes to appropriation—do I have the right to speak for this person? In my case, though, the voice of George Shannon just showed up in my head, with no ethical or other preconsiderations. When I first read about Shannon’s mis-adventure I felt an immediate kinship, even two centuries later, because I’d been a young man lost and wandering around our country myself. I’d driven around the Great Plains, and felt loneliness and amazement and even fear—felt myself being overwhelmed by the sheer space. Over the years, I would hear from Shannon occasionally, and transcribe his voice, as it were, relying on my own experience, too. Then I put it all together and made a poem of it in a period of two or three months. As for the ethics, I think I have enough generic similarities to “speak for” Shannon, where I could not speak for a young Sioux warrior in the same landscape at the same time. That would be a type of cultural imperialism.
Some of your lines begin and end very precisely, and require precise placement on the page—obviously, your lined poetry, and also notable passages like the “buffalo” section of Shannon. In prose poems like “Baltimore” and “The Custodian,” how important is the line, and how important is the exact placement of the line on the page? Does each stanza function like a line? How important is the end of each physical line? For example, when prose poetry is reprinted, should each line always end on the same word, despite the page width, or should publishers let the text wrap around wherever the page ends?
By definition, prose is set by the typographer—which in our day means by Microsoft Word. If it’s prose, it goes to the margins, and is not visually shaped by the author. So, prose poems, likewise, go to the margins—any single piece of prose does, and so the poem looks different online, here, than it does on my computer. But it is broken into “units” that retain their integrity, if not their exact lineation on the page. You cannot make a “line-break” in prose, but you can make a “paragraph break,” and those, as in “Baltimore,” create a loose shaping of the poem on the page, a controlled flow. But it’s not the same as lines—it’s a unit between the line and the paragraph. Some people would call them strophes. A literal description I sometimes use is sculptural prose fragments.
How influential is the work of artists like, for instance, the brilliant Jim McMichael, to your writing style? If you feel any influence exists, do you feel it was more prevalent in your early work than in your more recent?
McMichael’s wonderful book Four Good Things had a large influence on “The Bob Hope Poem” in particular. Several people have told me that Shannon reminds them of another of his poems—but that was not a conscious influence, and I don’t know if I’ve read that poem or not. I need to look that poem up. Either way, it’s interesting that both of my book-length poems bear a resemblance to his work.
One of the indicators of an artist reaching journeyman status is a general pervasive tone or attitude akin to "what the fuck" (as in Q. "Why did you end that line on a preposition?" A. Because I felt like it). It is the product, it seems, of an artist that has reached an understanding with their art, and most often results in some of the most successful poetry. It presents as an artist that relies less on convention and more on personal choice, and usually follows years of proving they "know better". And to us it is the ultimate indicator that the artist has deeply contextualized the phrase "serve the poem." Do you feel at this point in your progression that you have reached this journeyman status as it's been defined here?
Well, my sense of a journeyman is a bit different from yours. In baseball, a journeyman is a guy who has played for a lot of teams, is a solid veteran, can help you out in the bullpen or at the bottom of the batting order, but not a real star, not a great player. In my mind it’s not the journeyman but the master craftsman who makes those intuitive, startling gestures that I think you are referring to, someone like Basho. I never will certainly never be as good as Basho. On the other hand, I’ve always done things a bit unconventionally, and taken a lot of risks, whether I had the skills to back them up or not. Poetry, for me, is a great place to take risks, break rules, run amok. I’m always happy to jump off the tops of tall buildings, and these days I sometimes even manage to land in the tiny buckets of water at their feet.
---------
Loneliness is everywhere, John. Not even poetry can save us.
|


